Subject: Weekly posting summary for [email-masked]

From: Thomas Narten <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 09:36:04 -0400

Total of 66 messages in the last 7 days through midnight,
Thursday, April 13 EST.
 
    Messages   |      Bytes        | Who
--------+------+--------+----------+------------------------
  9.09% |    6 |  8.04% |    32205 | [email-masked]
  6.06% |    4 |  8.98% |    35985 | [email-masked]
  6.06% |    4 |  6.62% |    26509 | [email-masked]
  6.06% |    4 |  5.98% |    23946 | [email-masked]
  6.06% |    4 |  5.14% |    20609 | [email-masked]
  6.06% |    4 |  4.72% |    18924 | [email-masked]
  4.55% |    3 |  5.14% |    20589 | [email-masked]
  4.55% |    3 |  4.35% |    17411 | [email-masked]
  4.55% |    3 |  3.89% |    15579 | [email-masked]
  4.55% |    3 |  3.21% |    12877 | [email-masked]
  3.03% |    2 |  2.78% |    11139 | [email-masked]
  3.03% |    2 |  2.67% |    10691 | [email-masked]
  3.03% |    2 |  2.44% |     9761 | [email-masked]
  1.52% |    1 |  3.63% |    14565 | [email-masked]
  1.52% |    1 |  3.61% |    14447 | [email-masked]
  3.03% |    2 |  2.07% |     8312 | [email-masked]
  3.03% |    2 |  1.99% |     7983 | [email-masked]
  1.52% |    1 |  3.45% |    13827 | [email-masked]
  1.52% |    1 |  2.04% |     8162 | [email-masked]
  1.52% |    1 |  1.76% |     7047 | [email-masked]
  1.52% |    1 |  1.74% |     6986 | [email-masked]
  1.52% |    1 |  1.70% |     6828 | [email-masked]
  1.52% |    1 |  1.61% |     6436 | [email-masked]
  1.52% |    1 |  1.60% |     6420 | [email-masked]
  1.52% |    1 |  1.53% |     6137 | [email-masked]
  1.52% |    1 |  1.45% |     5802 | [email-masked]
  1.52% |    1 |  1.33% |     5310 | [email-masked]
  1.52% |    1 |  1.24% |     4950 | [email-masked]
  1.52% |    1 |  1.12% |     4490 | [email-masked]
  1.52% |    1 |  1.11% |     4432 | [email-masked]
  1.52% |    1 |  1.04% |     4151 | [email-masked]
  1.52% |    1 |  1.02% |     4095 | [email-masked]
  1.52% |    1 |  1.02% |     4084 | [email-masked]
--------+------+--------+----------+------------------------
100.00% |   66 |100.00% |   400689 | Total

_______________________________________________
Ietf mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

---

From: Frank Ellermann <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 13:00:00 +0200

> Total of 66 messages in the last 7 days through midnight,

Sometimes this weekly "alive" message isn't good enough, at the
moment I'm trying to debug an issue between GMaNe and the tools
list.  So far I only know that it's not between me and GMaNe,
and not on GMaNe itself.  As a mail2news gateway the latter is
not always obvious, but there are two test methods to check it:
direct NNTP to its "junk" group, and news2mail plus mail2news
via its "test" group.

The next critical hops are "megatron" and "odin" on the IETF
side.  Sometimes (three or four weekends in 2005) they don't
redistribute submitted mails immediately, and then submitted
mails won't show up in the corrresponding GMaNe "newsgroup"
like http://dir.gmane.org/ietf.tools (NNTP, RSS, HTTP, search).

This could be also an unannounced change in the status of the
list, e.g. the IMA list accepted GMaNe submissions for some
time, and later bounced claiming that they are "unsubscribed".

Plain nonsense, of course GMaNe is subscribed (otherwise the
group wouldn't get any articles), all GMaNe submissions have an
SPF PASS for the Return-Path, and even a PRA PASS for Sender =
Return-Path = GMaNe.  And GMaNe checks all 2822 From addresses
_per list_ (not globally) with a simple mail C/R system.

An additional mailman subscription is technically pointless, a
manually moderated bounce to a poster who had already posted on
the IMA list is odd.  I try to get IMA flagged as "non-public" on GMaNe,
in other words requiring a separate subscription.

What I miss are test lists to check the status of "megatron" -
<http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.ietf.general/20342> shows
that all was fine until Fri, 14 Apr 2006 15:59:56 -0700.  Bye

---

From: Frank Ellermann <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 13:44:41 +0200

> that all was fine until Fri, 14 Apr 2006 15:59:56 -0700.

Update: <http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.ietf.general/20347>
Sat, 15 Apr 2006 13:00:00 +0200 - no "megatron" / "odin" issue.

The "tools" list also changed its status from "unmoderated" to
"moderated" without announcement.  This is rather annoying, it
requires "double" subscriptions from my POV behind GMaNe, a new
status on GMaNe ("public" to "non-public"), and it's technically
dubious (a mailman subscription isn't better than GMaNe's C/R),
causing trouble (either the modeator finds the "false positive"
manually or not, let alone "when").  Creating many "disabled"
subscriptions is a pain (reading the list on GMaNe I don't want
additional copies in my inbox, therefore I've to disable it).

For some lists (e.g. IMA) I came to the conclusion that if they
don't want contributions it's simple to arrange, there will be 
an "IETF last call" later allowing to comment dubious proposals.

The IETF list management is strange - please improve this.  I'll
propose to update the "IMA" and "tools" status on GMaNe:

[email-masked] (= http://dir.gmane.org/ietf.tools )
[email-masked] (= http://dir.gmane.org/ietf.ima )
--  
Frank  (X-Posted on gmane.discuss and gmane.ietf.general)

---

From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 15:06:11 +0200

Hi Frank,

on 2006-04-15 13:44 Frank Ellermann said the following:
> "moderated" without announcement.

Please provide more data (off-list) as this seems odd.  The
[email-masked] list has always required manual approval
of non-subscriber postings, but there should be no moderation of
postings from subscribers, and I haven't instituted any changes
nor am I aware of any changes in the list settings for a long time
(A year?  years?)

	Henrik

---

From: Frank Ellermann <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 16:44:11 +0200

Henrik Levkowetz wrote:

> Please provide more data (off-list) as this seems odd.

Will do (ordinary moderation bounce), but on list I should fix
the bogus URLs I've posted here (I forgot one "gmane", sorry):

http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.ietf.tools (NNTP, RSS, HTTP, search)
http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.ietf.ima   (NNTP, RSS, HTTP, search)

I've no clue if I'm "additionally" subscribed or not, as this
is irrelevant from my POV, because it would be disabled (only
for the W3C URI list I get everything twice, even three times
if somebody sends a courtesy copy, it has no "disable" option).

                              Bye, Frank

---

From: Sam Hartman <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 16:30:12 -0400

>>>>> "Frank" == Frank Ellermann <[email-masked]> writes:

    >> Please provide more data (off-list) as this seems odd.

    Frank> Will do (ordinary moderation bounce), but on list I should
    Frank> fix the bogus URLs I've posted here (I forgot one "gmane",
    Frank> sorry):

    Frank> http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.ietf.tools (NNTP, RSS, HTTP,
    Frank> search) http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.ietf.ima (NNTP, RSS,
    Frank> HTTP, search)

Note that for WG lists, it is reasonable to require manual moderation
of non-subscriber postings but these postings must be promptly
approved.  It is not appropriate to ask people to subscribe in order
to contribute to a working group.

---

From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 13:07:55 +0200

> to contribute to a working group.

And the rules haven't changed for almost 6 years:

http://www.ietf.org/IESG/STATEMENTS/moderated-lists.txt
(posted August 29, 2000)

     Brian

---

From: Harald Alvestrand <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 16:27:13 +0200

I don't know of a status change to IMA in this time interval.