Newsgroups: rec.kites Subject: Re: Attaching arrow nocks to Graphite spars Message-ID: <1992Nov19.082200.12045@nic.funet.fi> From: salanne@convex.csc.FI (Simo Salanne) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 08:22:00 GMT Organization: Finnish Academic and Research Network Project - FUNET Organisation: STACK Finland In <1eed2uINN5de@gap.caltech.edu> lxrosser@cco.caltech.edu (Alex Rosser) writes: > I'm resparing a kite for a friend and I need some advice on the >best way to mate plastic arrow nocks to graphite spars(or a good >way to mate plastic to graphite period...). Think about NOT using arrow nocks at all. There are in the market end caps, which are made for kiting purposes - instead of archery. I like them more, one reason is that you don't glue them on spar, which makes replacement easier, faster. Smooth Winds Simo Salanne = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Newsgroups: rec.kites From: mss@endor.uucp (Marty Sasaki) Subject: Re: Attaching arrow nocks to Graphite spars Message-ID: <1992Nov19.183107.22278@das.harvard.edu> Organization: Sasaki Kite Fabrications Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:31:07 GMT I've changed my mind about nocks over time. In the beginning I used nocks because they were the easiest way to do things. I've used end caps recenntly since I could get them inexpensively. I've changed back to nocks. I don't use bungee cords to attach the kite sail to the stick these days, I use a piece of cord. A nock is easier to tie the cord to. After the cord is tied in place, I slip a plastic end cap over the nock. I use the one piece nocks that just fit over the end. You don't need to glue these in place, friction will hold them in place. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Marty Sasaki Sasaki Kite Fabrications mss@das.harvard.edu 26 Green Street phone: 617-522-8546 Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Newsgroups: rec.kites Subject: Re: Attaching arrow nocks to Graphite spars Message-ID: <1992Nov20.080741.17012@nic.funet.fi> From: salanne@convex.csc.FI (Simo Salanne) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 08:07:41 GMT Organization: Finnish Academic and Research Network Project - FUNET Organisation: STACK Finland In <1992Nov19.183107.22278@das.harvard.edu> mss@endor.uucp (Marty Sasaki) writes: >I don't use bungee cords to attach the kite sail to the stick these >days, I use a piece of cord. A nock is easier to tie the cord to. > Do you mean it's non-elastic? I don't use the "thick" (i.e. 3-4 mm) bungee cord, but thinner about 2 mm diameter, but it is still elastic. Using two or three loops makes it easy to adjust suitable tensioning. Smooth Winds Simo Salanne = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Newsgroups: rec.kites Subject: Re: Attaching arrow nocks to Graphite spars Message-ID: <17091@umd5.umd.edu> From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) Date: 20 Nov 92 12:48:44 GMT Organization: University of Maryland at College Park In article <1eed2uINN5de@gap.caltech.edu> lxrosser@cco.caltech.edu (Alex Rosser) writes: > > I'm resparing a kite for a friend and I need some advice on the >best way to mate plastic arrow nocks to graphite spars I never glue nocks onto my graphite. It makes it too hard to remove the remnants if the nock breaks and needs to be replaced. Besides, there's not really much point to it; the bungee (or whatever is used to tension the sail) will hold the nock in place. If I'm using nocks with metal inserts, I'll glue the nock to the insert, often with a silicone gel sort of adhesive. Still easy to get on and off, and once again, you really don't need to worry about the nock going anywhere once the sail is tensioned. A lot of people have been using heat-shrink tubing to fasten items on spars lately (JordanAire and TotL are two manufacturers I can think of who do this) and it works just dandily. It's certainly worthy a try. Jeff -- |Jeffrey C. Burka | "Show what you are / Be strong, be true | | | Time for you to / Be who you are." | |jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu | --Happy Rhodes | = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Newsgroups: rec.kites Path: das-news.harvard.edu!endor!mss From: mss@endor.uucp (Marty Sasaki) Subject: Re: Attaching arrow nocks to Graphite spars Message-ID: <1992Nov21.005024.14641@das.harvard.edu> Organization: Sasaki Kite Fabrications Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 00:50:24 GMT In article <1992Nov20.080741.17012@nic.funet.fi> salanne@convex.csc.FI (Simo Salanne) writes: >In <1992Nov19.183107.22278@das.harvard.edu> mss@endor.uucp (Marty Sasaki) writes: > >>I don't use bungee cords to attach the kite sail to the stick these >>days, I use a piece of cord. A nock is easier to tie the cord to. >> >Do you mean it's non-elastic? Yes, it is non-elastic, or "no, it is not elastic". There are a few kites here in the States that don't use elastic to attack the kite sail to it's frame. I could use elastic, and I might change back someday, but for now the wing tips get non-elastic cords on most of my kites. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Marty Sasaki Sasaki Kite Fabrications mss@das.harvard.edu 26 Green Street phone: 617-522-8546 Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Newsgroups: rec.kites From: mss@endor.uucp (Marty Sasaki) Subject: Re: Attaching arrow nocks to Graphite spars Message-ID: <1992Nov23.043736.8364@das.harvard.edu> Organization: Sasaki Kite Fabrications Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 04:37:36 GMT In article <17117@umd5.umd.edu> jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) writes: >A length of line (kevlar or otherwise) is sewn onto the leading edge, extending >quite far up the edge. It is done with plenty of line leftover at the bottom. >This bottom line is then pulled tight and wrapped/fastened in one way or >another around the bottom of the spar. I think on of the big advantages is >that the stress is distributed much better along the leading edge instead of >concentrated on that little hole you've made (and probably pounded a grommet >into) at the very bottom. I use a little hole that has a grommet set into it. I used to sew the line into the leading edge, but that takes a long time and if your leading edige material is something like 4 ounce dacron, which is what I use for everything except the ultra-lights, there is no noticable difference between sewing in the line and just using a whole with a grommet. The biggest advantage in my mind to this system is that it allows you to precisely adjust the tension in the sail. The sail tension can make a big difference in the way a kite flys. In fact, one of the ways to fine tune the speed of a stunt kite is to play with the tension. >As far as I know, the JordanAir Pro was the first kite to use this idea, though >I could be wrong. Dean Jordan doesn't use nocks on the Advantage Pro; he >uses nylon wire ties stuck into the end of the spar, putting the line through >the tie and then running some half hitches to further fasten the line. The ultra-light Katana II uses Clearwater spars, very similar to the Advantage Pro. I place a nock over a piece of 1/4" graphite and place this inside the spar and tie the line to it. Much easier to adjust than the wire tie... And yes, Dean was the first that I know to use this method on stunt kites. It has been used for many years on single line kites. >The original Tracer used a different technique, which Skyward called "active >frame tensioning." The kite has a line sewn into the trailing edge; the loose >end of the line is then tied into a loop and slipped over an arrow nock. The >biggest problem with this is that as the sail stretches, the knots will have >to be re-tied. This isn't _too_ big a deal; the last time I had to adjust >my Tracer was in August. I've seen folks with improperly adjusted Tracers fly very badly. When the line was adjusted properly, the kite flew much better. >The latest version of the Tracer (and the version that will be manufactured >and marketed by Skynasaur) still has the line in the trailing edge, but also >has a bungee in the traditional spot. I've no idea what this is supposed >to do for the kite. There are several kites that have this arrangement these days. The EFM and the newer Team High Flys come to mind. The theory is that the bungee cord can be used to control the tension in the sail along the leading edge, the kevlar adjusts the tension in the trailing edge. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Marty Sasaki Sasaki Kite Fabrications mss@das.harvard.edu 26 Green Street phone: 617-522-8546 Jamaica Plain, MA 02130