Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1993 20:57:58 -1000 From: tanaka_be@swam1.enet.dec.com Message-Id: <9306170656.AA07302@enet-gw.pa.dec.com> Organization: Division of Applied Sciences, Harvard University Subject: Snap stall In an earlier note, Brett Borowski asks: >Well, now that I've flown my Sorceror a bit, I've got a bunch of questions. >I started with 150' of 150# spectra. I'm now flying 100' of 150# at the >suggestion of the guys at the park. I'm planning on picking up some >80# spectra because the wind is often pretty light here. The 150' 150# >line seemed to really hurt the response of the kite. Comments? Everybody has a personal preference regarding line length and weight. Mine is 150#, 100' to 120' for individual flying, and 200#, 120'-150' for team flying. I used to use 80# line for light wind but have found that it doesn't bother me to fly on the 150#. I use 80# line on 3/4 deltas. I have a short set (65' lines) for short fields and no wind flying. The short set is also faster to untangle and set up when learning new stunts (like turtles, i.e). Its less the length of the line than the sag that causes poor response. Excessive sag means that a lot of motion is wasted pulling the line sag out before the kite actually responds. >What is a snap stall? A maneuver that causes a dual line kite to stall abruptly in mid-air, and to pause in flight. I use three different techniques. 1. The easiest one is a one handed pull, and then push stall. Fly your kite horizontally to the left side of the wind window. When you get to the edge, pull with your right hand to turn the kite up, and immediately, snap a push with the same hand to stall the kite. Its a smooth looking maneuver that is limited to edge work, and low wind conditions. 2. To stall the kite in the center of the window, where wind is strong, some use a pull-pull snap stall. I.E., fly your kite straight down in the center of the wind window. Just before it is about to hit the ground, snap pull with your right hand to turn the kite up, and then immediately snap pull with your left hand so that it is even with your right hand to stall the kite. The motion is quite forceful. It looks like the kite is being jerked into position, rather than turned and then stalled into position. Team High Performance has been very successful with this type of stall. 3. Randy Joe of team Tsunami taught me the push-pull stall Tsunami uses. To execute this one, fly your kite straight down in the center of the window. To turn your kite up, snap your left hand forward and your right hand back. The left hand is the push that turns the kite over and travels roughly twice the distance that the right hand does. To stall the kite, snap both hands back together; this time the left hand is pulling, and the right hand is pushing. High hand speed is critical. The motion when done correctly is quite compact and causes the kite to look like it is being slammed to halt. This technique works well in high wind. Just for your own information, if Tsunami is competing in your area, they often have workshops where they teach a lot of the more advanced moves, with a special emphasis on ground work. The first technique is a finesse stall. The last two are power moves. It might be good to mention that the pull-pull, and the push-pull stalls are done in stronger winds, and because they are also executed with a great deal more vigor, snapping the leading edge, especially where the edge is joined by the lower spreader, is not unheard of so it might be wise to use a kite with a sturdy frame while learning these maneuvers. This is already running longer than intended, so I'll stop it here. Hope it helps... Good Winds, Bert Tanaka Digital Equipment West Covina, Ca. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1993 10:11:35 -1000 From: WVOSS@novell.com (Wes Voss) Message-Id: Organization: Novell, Inc. Subject: Skill Level for snap stalls (was re:Snap Stall) Still being somewhat of a novice, I have been following this threat today on snap stalls with much interest. But I have a few questions... First, at what height would you normally perform one of these stalls? It sounds like this would look GREAT, but I have to admit that although I feel comfortable doing a simple nose dive and pulling out at the last minute to go right or left, it seems a little more timing critical to keep from munching your kite! Any suggestions? Has anyone destroyed their kite learning this? = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1993 08:44:02 -1000 From: lmarshal@pnfi.forestry.ca (Larry Marshall) Message-Id: Organization: Forestry Canada - Petawawa National Forestry Institute Subject: Re: Snap stall In <1vqc6s$l31@pogo.wv.tek.com> daveb@pogo.wv.tek.com (Dave Butler) writes: > PS. I realize that there are some excellent flyers on this board, and > that some compete in masters class, so my personal news is probably not > all that exciting to any but myself, but after a few years of flying, Rest assured that there's at least one other guy here (me) who has just gotten some new ideas on how to brutalized his kites and will be out trying to make it happen asap (grin). ---------- Larry Marshall lmarshal@pnfi.forestry.ca Forestry Canada (613) 589-2880 Petawawa National Forestry Institute (613) 589-2275 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1993 10:04:01 -1000 From: sasaki@das.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) Message-Id: <1993Jun17.200401.10379@das.harvard.edu> Organization: Harvard University Subject: Re: Skill Level for snap stalls (was re:Snap Stall) In article , WVOSS@novell.com (Wes Voss) writes: >First, at what height would you normally perform one of these stalls? It >sounds like this would look GREAT, but I have to admit that although I feel >comfortable doing a simple nose dive and pulling out at the last minute to go >right or left, it seems a little more timing critical to keep from munching >your kite! Any suggestions? Has anyone destroyed their kite learning this? You can do it wherever you feel like doing it. If you snap near the ground, you can usually take a few steps forward and land the kite. I agree though, it is best to try this out with a little altitude, especially if you are a real novice. Once you get the hang of it, bring it down lower and lower... -- Marty Sasaki Harvard University Sasaki Kite Fabrications sasaki@noc.harvard.edu Network Services Division 26 Green Street 617-496-4320 10 Ware Street Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 Cambridge, MA 02138-4002 phone/fax: 617-522-8546 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1993 07:35:19 -1000 From: sasaki@das.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) Message-Id: <1993Jun17.173519.8823@das.harvard.edu> Organization: Harvard University Subject: Re: Snap stall In article <9306170656.AA07302@enet-gw.pa.dec.com>, tanaka_be@swam1.enet.dec.com writes: >>What is a snap stall? > >A maneuver that causes a dual line kite to stall abruptly in mid-air, >and to pause in flight. I use three different techniques. ...three excellent techniques deleted... And then there are: 4. The pull-push-push. This one is from Alan Nagao and is probably the best way to snap stall an Edge. Here you really give the line a yank, more of a jerk than anything else, then you push with the pulled hand, then you push with the other hand. 5. I refined this to the pull-push-push-run. After doing the pull-push-push, take several quick steps forward to keep the kite from rising. This is usually necessary only in high wind. Another pretty move is to do a tight upward loop and then to stall the kite. Speaking immodestly, the Katana does this better than most kites that I've seen or flown. I usually do this with a pull turn up and just as the kite is about to turn up for the second time, I do a push with the pulled hand, then continue pushing with the other hand. If the wind is high a few steps forward helps too. -- Marty Sasaki Harvard University Sasaki Kite Fabrications sasaki@noc.harvard.edu Network Services Division 26 Green Street 617-496-4320 10 Ware Street Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 Cambridge, MA 02138-4002 phone/fax: 617-522-8546 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1993 09:22:28 -1000 From: kowalski@brutus.aa.ab.com Message-Id: <1993Jun17.192228.22064@icd.ab.com> Organization: A-B > PS. I realize that there are some excellent flyers on this board, and > that some compete in masters class, so my personal news is probably not > all that exciting to any but myself [... stuff deleted about Dave's win at a kite competition..] Rest assured, Dave, that there is at least one (and probably more) reader who barely understands 1/2 of what is discussed here, lurks on this group to learn something, has only flown a handful of times and finds your news very interesting and exciting! We "**TRUE** novices" who are still learning to control the darn things take pleasure in your first win. Good luck in future competitions! pk. ___________________________________________________________________________ flying dialog 'tween newbies: "wow! I turned it twice! it didnt crash!" = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1993 08:12:44 -1000 From: daveb@pogo.wv.tek.com (Dave Butler) Message-Id: <1vqc6s$l31@pogo.wv.tek.com> Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Wilsonville, OR, USA Subject: Re: Snap stall Bert Tenaka gave some good examples of snap stalls, but left out my favorite: the push-push snap stall. Aim the kite in any direction and accelerate across the window by pulling both lines to your chest. When approaching the edge of the window quickly push one arm to full length and when the kite completes its spin and is going (but is not yet) upright, quickly push the other arm out. It also helps to be walking forward a bit at the time. It also works in the center of the window, but for obvious reasons works better at the edge. The reason I did not mention either the direction of the kite, or which hand to push first is that you will get different reactions from each situation. For instance if you are headed right and push first with your right, you will turn up, hover high and be able to go into a dive afterwards. If you push with your left you will do a down turn (which is quite spectacular if you are just 2 wingspans above the ground), and when you come around to vertical, if you work it right, you can get the kite to stop and even slip off to the left as if it was falling off a shelf. Two good move from a push-push stall is to bring the kite across the wind two kite lengths above the ground, push stall down, push with the other hand as it goes vertical, and then skate back into the window. Another fancy move is to bring the kite across the window (again two wingspans above the ground) get to the edge of the window, push turn down, and then put on the breaks with the other push turn, just as the kite again faces into the wind, and bring the kite immediately into a tip plant. I can only do the last move in low winds, but one of last years top NW competitors could do that move in a 15 mph wind (at least I think he did a push push). This move also works well for a snap stall landing. Aim the kite directly at the ground and accelerate by pulling your hands to your chest. Just before hitting the ground, push with one hand, and then when the kite has turned 90 degrees, push with the other hand. If done correctly, the kite will hover in an upright position, about 3 to 4 feet of the ground, and you simply walk forward to drop it (This works incredibly well with a Magnum Opus). So while trying your pull-pull snap stall, give a push-push snap stall a try. Later, Dave Butler Science, freedom, beauty, adventure: What more could you ask of life? Aviation combined all the elements I loved... I began to feel that I lived on a higher plane than the skeptics of the ground; one that was richer because of its very association with the elements of danger they dreaded, because it was freer of the earth to which they were bound. In flying I tasted the wine of the gods of which they could know nothing... Charles A. Lindbergh Jr. PS. I realize that there are some excellent flyers on this board, and that some compete in masters class, so my personal news is probably not all that exciting to any but myself, but after a few years of flying, and with the encouragement of several friends, I finally entered a kite competition at novice level (Newport Kite Competition). Now I knew about the required forms, but I didn't know about freestyle (I didn't realize Novice did freestyle), so I didn't practice a routine. I did one anyway though. The wind was low (about 2 to 3 mph), so they kept putting novice off. Finally they decided to let us have a chance or we wouldn't fly at all. Lucky for me, I really like low wind flying. I flew my required forms quite nicely, and then did an impromptu freestyle. Since I didn't know what else to do I did what I normally do, I did a couple of the more advance forms I knew, and then spent the rest of the time doing snap stalls, skating, belly launches, tip drags, and some other moves. I think I was probably graded down for doing so few the forms from the book, but I won in spite of that. In fact, as I'd kept my kite in the air so well (in 2 to 3 mph), one of the judges looked at me really strangely and asked if he could try my kite (a Maxi Edge I had just borrowed that day). It was a boost to my ego to see him lose control of it twice in the low wind (Maxis tend to be nose heavy). A couple of the judges and several friends came up afterwards and strongly suggested I move up and leave Novice; it was a nice feeling. Now of course comes the realization that I won't be winning again for at least a while. Oh well, practice, practice.